Okay, Plaugeis was Seiphodeas. See, Seiphodeas was one of the fallen twenty-one (As according to "Star Wars: Episode Three: Revenge of the Sith). Seifodeas ordered the clone army in the first place and implanted his dirty little "order sixty-six" in them so that he could kill the Jedi off. Then Palpy became his apprentise, found out about the power, and killed Plaugeis/ Seiphodeas because he feared his power. Some of this is theoretical, but think about it- if the clones were created by a good Jedi to assisst in a forseen war, he probably wouldn't have implanted order sixty-six (What with him not wanting to kill them,and all)

I am sorry but I find that highly unlikely. I am not calling you a liar or anything dont take what I say in that way. I am just saying I think your mistaken.

For instance http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darth_Plagueis

There is no mention of Plagueis being Sifo Dyas. Also http://www.answers.com/topic/darth-plagueis which also mentions that Plagueis was Palpatine's master.

The official Star Wars databank hasnt been updated yet to reflect some of the new info we learned in Ep3, but I have a feeling it will be reflected from what was written on these sites. The problem with your assertion that Plagueis = Sifo Dyas and ordered the clone army, is that this must have happened shortly after or before Palpatine ordered the Trade Federation to occupy Naboo. The problem is continuity, how then was Darth Maul a Sith Lord? I find it highly unlikely Plagueis would have allowed Palpatine to take on apprentice since this violates the rule of two that the Sith had been following.

For your version to work, the rule of two has to be violated as well as now we are forced to somehow think up a way that Palpatine trained Maul. Its been officially listed that Maul had been trained from a very young age by Palpatine to become a Sith Lord. To me that indicates that Palpatine had done away with Plagueis long long long before the events of The Phantom Menace.

The clone army was ordered, what, sixteen years in advance? As you've said before, what is Palpy saw his masters notes on this plan and ordered the army later on for when it would be needed? Also, who knows how fast Zabrach develope? The horn-heads might become older in about half the time it would take a human to. Thus, it technically is a very young age. Also, reguardless of everything else, i still think I have some support from order sixty-six. A Jedi Master just plain wouldn't have entered a command into his troops that they should kill the jedi. And (don't quote me here, because I forget where the hell it was, and it could be my imagination acting up again) I think I remember something saying that the clones were given all of their orders when they were trained in the clone-accademy-place. So, then, how would Palpatine know about order sixty-six unless he implemented it into the clones. Or it could just be that he gave them the order based on his position as Supreme Chancelor of the Republic.

The Order 66 part is something I wish Lucas had made more clear because its so ambiguous.

I hear ya though, well hopefully either an EU story will come out which fleshes out the whole Sifo Dyas character and we find out what is what. Or, hopefully Lucas makes something more clear on the official databank at SW.com.

I believe I read that it was Dooku posing as Sifo Diyas who ordered up the clones. And Jango Fett actually states in The Phantom Menace that "Someone named Tyranus" ordered him to train the clones or "got me this job". He may have actually given Dooku's Sith name as a ruse OR he may have told the simple truth. As Sky says we will have to wait for more info to be sure %100.-Grand Moff Conway

It figures that I was right 2 years before the movie came out, that Palpatine was Anakin's father, Man am I brilliant or what!!!

I mentioned what Conway said in an earlier post. Dooku posed as Sifo-Dyas to make the clones, but went ahead and used his Sith name with Jango (presumably because he didnt want Jango going to the council if he had any questions or concerns about the job). We also know that it was Dooku/Tyranus who trained Qui-Gon, as Dooku specifically says that in Ep. 2 when Obi-Wan is a little...tied up. Dooku also helps Obi-Wan-Complusive-Liar-Kenobi by being not only Qui-gon's master, but Yoda's apprentice. That way, we get this line:

Yoda-->Dooku-->Qui-Gon (Ra's Al Ghul) Jinn-->Obi-Wan-->Luke.

Since Yoda's lessons eventually trickled their way down to Obi, he can say that, indirectly, Yoda was the Jedi master who taught him! Of course, Obi-Wan is a compulsive liar anyway. Then again, so was Dooku, posing as Sifo-Dyas! Hmm....Yoda lied about the twins, making them appear to have died with Padme....now if we can just find evidence that Qui-Gon was a compulsive liar, we'll be good to go.

LOL. Well as it was mentioned before, we wont really know for certain till Lucas clears this up, either by an update on the Star Wars databank website OR through an EU story.

Aye. What really floors me is that Anakin, who is so atuned to the force, couldn't figure out that Padme' had twins. There were most deffinately two seperate people in her, but he still didn't know that Leiah was his daughter until episode six. Didn't he bother to look inside her when she was on the Death Star? Let me refrase that- didn't he investigate her with the force? He'd have found some Anakin in her.

Vader was having an off day during Episode IV. He was about to vaporize Luke and he had no idea that Luke was his son. "The Force is strong with this one." No duh, helmet head--he's your SON! I think he was too busy taking orders from Emperor Tarkin to really pay attention.

Seriously though, I think he was too busy trying to pry Leia for information rather than learning about her with the Force. Vader can't read minds, and so he was so busy using that probe droid that he didnt think to look into her. And why should he? After all, I doubt Vader checks every one of his captives to see if they are related. Unless the person radiates an incredibly strong aura (like Luke and Obi), then Vader would probably have to actively sense them out. Notice that Vader could only barely sense Obi's aura when on the Death Star, so that lets you know how hard it was for him.

In ep. 3, he'd only be able to Force Sense the twins, but Leia was so weak in the force that she might not even register right next to the uber-sensitive Luke, so that might explain the misconception.

That doesn;t follow though, if Luke projects such an aura, then his twin should also do the same. Bear in mind that Yoda was convinced that if Luke fell Leia was a credible alternative and therefore she must have the same sort of potential...Why he didn't get Leia could be explained by the quote from Obi Wan:

"The force can have power over the weak minded" (something lilke that)

Leia was strong enough to resist the probe droid, maybe she had the strength of will (related to the potential I mentioned earlier paerhaps?) to delfect Vader's probing witout realising it...

I havent read any of the NJO stuff, but Leia seemed to be a pretty weak Jedi in the books that were published pre-Ep.1. I think that she was simply too weak to be detectable. As for Yoda's comment, look at it this way and it works:

Yoda meant Leia was their last hope because if Luke fell to the dark side or died or didnt do the job then Leia could make Vader see the good in himself and bring balance to the Force by killing Palpy. Yes I know that Leia hated Vader for the whole Alderaan thing, but given that he was her father, Leia might have been able to put her feelings aside long enough to turn Vader. Luke did it, and I figure a senator probably has more self-control than a farm boy.

As for the mind reading thing- how do you explain Vader's sudden knowledge that luke has a twin sister in ROTJ? Also, in ROTJ Luke makes the whole stupid speach of "The force is strong in my family. My mother had it (You sure about that?). My father had it. my sister has it" Or something along those lines. This proved Leia to be atuned to the force.

I never said that she isnt attuned to the force, but rather she's weak enough in it to be overlooked. As for Vader knowing about Leia in ROTJ, that one's easy--we know that Vader can read his son's mind. Look how they were communicating mentally in ESB. When they were fighting in front of the Emperor, he simply read his mind and found the thing that would ignite Luke's rage--the idea of turning Leia evil

Guys guys guys. Leia is not as strong as Luke is. She might have Jedi potential but she isnt up to Luke's level. I am pretty sure that its canon fact that Luke is arguably the strongest Jedi to ever come in existence. Its been strongly hinted at in most novels (with the exception of Kevin J Anderson because for whatever reason he created Kyp Duron).

At any rate, Vader can read minds, he read Luke's mind in ROTJ in case anyone forgot. He also mentioned in ANH that "her resistance to the mind probe is considerable. It will take some time to extract anything useful" or something like that. Vader can read minds. Most of you I think are forgetting that using the Force is a conscious endeavor. Anakin was undoubtedly wrapped up into too much emotion and rage that he didnt bother to focus on the children that Padme was carrying. Much like how Palpatine didnt sense Yoda till he knocked the Imperial Royal Guards over in that one scene in RoTS. A Force user has to be consciously using the Force and draw on it to use its power. Not all the time do they draw on it. Think about Palpatine, had he been constantly drawing on the Force why didnt the Jedi detect him then? We see in AOTC that he has conferences with Jedi in his very own office. It goes without saying then that had he started drawing on the force in their presence they would have noticed it. Much like reading minds, its something that requires a conscious effort. Otherwise again, why didnt the Jedi detect that Palpatine was a Sith Lord?